User talk:Bjh21

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Welcome to my user talk page. Comments and questions about the Geograph Update Bot belong here.

Image:Lelantcrossing.jpg[edit]

Hello, and thank you for uploading your files to Wikimedia Commons. There seems to be some license information missing regarding this particular file, however. Could you please fix this? Thank you--Orgullomoore 20:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Re : Image:British Battlecruiser HMS Hood sinking.jpg etc[edit]

Hello. Yes, I know, and it's the same problem with the ones that User:Darkone uploaded for example.
Of course, the original pictures were taken by a German soldier and later (during/after the war ?) seized by the U.S. Government/Navy which placed them in the PD. There are other examples to be found in the site of the Historical Center, like Image:British_Battlecruiser_HMS_Hood_circa1932b.jpg, and that weren't taken by U.S. Navy crews but are present in the N.H.C. collection, and because of that, in PD.
So in these cases, which template use ? I've looked but didn't find anyone that could match : there is a lack in this case. The best, I think, would be to create a new template specific for the N.H.C. (or more general ?), something like Template:PD-LOC. In this case, I prefer let an U.S. (or U.K.) contributor create that template.
Note that I could also use Template:PD-retouched-user-w for these photos I've uploaded because I've cleaned them previously, but the problem would remain with the pictures of the Bismarck uploaded by Darkone, for example.
Regards. Sting 16:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

In fact, I've created that template : Template:PD-USGov-Military-Navy-NHC and put a post in Commons talk:Licensing, waiting for the reactions. Sting 18:25, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


Image:Omar Mukhtar 11.jpg[edit]

Please check Image talk:Omar Mukhtar 11.jpg --Tarawneh 02:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Sedona, Arizona[edit]

Hi! With regard to the Sedona category... Please keep in mind that it makes little sense to categorize images that already appear in articles by the same name. Four of the images you tagged had already been added to the article. Later today, I'll go back and add the other images you found (great images they are, too!) to the article as well. By using galleries in the article, we can keep the images far more organized and useful.

Categories are great for navigation and for tagging images that haven't been otherwise sorted, but let's keep them clear of images that have already been linked and added to various articles. As per Commons guidelines, articles are preferable to categories for managing images. Cheers, Rklawton 18:47, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Image:Alexandrina Maria da Costa.JPG[edit]

Hi. The author of this image is unknown (nobody knows the photographer who did it). But this photo is in the Public Domain and is used by everyone, even for commercial use. Manuel Anastácio 15:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I've explained why this image is in public domain (I don't think it is - it is really in Public Domain). If you want delete it - delete it. It's the same to me!... Manuel Anastácio 21:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

File:Melsonby - geograph.org.uk - 75064.jpg[edit]

Thanks for spotting the problem with the naming of this file. I'd renamed on the basis of what Geograph image was being linked to, inevitably there are the odd mistakes. Regards. Adambro (talk) 17:57, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Geograph images[edit]

Re this edit - removing a Geograph tag because it was an higher res version. Your edit was perfectly correct but, removing the tag may have resulted in the bot uploading File:Battle of the Standard - geograph.org.uk - 101344.jpg totally unnecessarily. There are a number of other cases where I have uploaded an high res version and claimed it to be from Geograph. There are other cases where I have replaced a Geograph image with the high res version and not changed the description. And I have this list of an hundred images requiring high res versions.

To avoid confusing the bot, may I suggest: please leave these high res versions with the spurious geograph tag in place - or check with GeographBot to see how the description should be changed. When the Geograph bot has finished playing, I will let you have a list of my Geograph uploads and you can go round and change all the descriptions. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 18:33, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not generally trying to track down {{geograph}} templates on non-Geograph images at the moment – I only found those ones because they both happened to point to the same image on Geograph. Nonetheless, you plan seems quite sensible. I sometimes wonder if there should be a {{duplicates geograph}} template to document that an image, while not from Geograph itself, would {{duplicate}} one from there. --bjh21 (talk) 19:17, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

You can have the list now if you want. My uplog program now offers selection of Geograph images. The massive "Geog by ano" section (images uploaded by others, mainly the bot) contains 300 low res images needing to be replaced. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 23:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

In fact it was not your edit which caused the GeographBot to do the un-needed upload. it was just a coincidence that the two events happened close together. The bot uses the sha1 hash total of the actual image file. It did not find the exact Geograph file so it did the upload. Conversely in these 39 cases it discovered images which have been double-posted to geograph and did not repeat the mistake here!

Pending the {{duplicates geograph}} tag, I think we should use the Geograph tag on higher res versions or do what I have done here: put the image into the Geograph category without using the tag.

Keep your eye on my anomalies report, currently under development. You may find it useful. (It is painfully slow to load if it has not been used for some time. But keep trying!) — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 11:02, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Geograph images as PNGs[edit]

Is it really true that when a Geograph-image-as-PNG has been replaced and properly orphaned, we must mark it as superseded instead of simply zapping it? Seems pointless to me. — RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 11:02, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

It seems a bit pointless to me too, but I couldn't find any better way to do it. Commons:Deletion policy is quite clear that {{duplicate}} can only be applied to files of the same format. --bjh21 (talk) 17:32, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Map of Punjab 1909[edit]

Hello. I was drawn to your image - File:Punjab 1909.jpg, by today's story about Amritsar, ... David Cameron's visit. It's such a lovely map, especially for me as I have some experience in that part of the world. However, I think that it's a real shame that the detail is difficult to see. Perhaps it would be difficult to put onto a scanner; I imagine you've probably used a camera. I wondered, with cameras becoming more and more powerful these days, would it be possible to retake this picture so that more detail could be seen? I tried increasing the contrast, and such like, but the pixel depth was against me. With very best wishes. Francis Hannaway (talk) 08:31, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm afraid I no longer have any idea where I got that scan from. I'm fairly certain that I didn't scan (or photograph) it myself. If I had, I would have used a higher resolution and I expect I'd remember having borrowed the Imperial Gazetteer of India from the library. I'm sorry I can't be of more help. --bjh21 (talk) 20:05, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
Ah, well - such is life! Thanks for your kind reply! Best wishesFrancis Hannaway (talk) 22:25, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Brad bowden photo[edit]

The photo that you flagged is a picture that my photographer friend took with my cellphone.. how do I prove that? Do I just write "Facebook profile photo"? Help me out here Bow27 (talk) 00:25, 14 July 2017 (UTC)

Filemover[edit]

Hi Bjh21. I think you are completely eligible to become a filemover. If you are willing to become one, please condider requesting at Commons:Requests for rights#Filemover. Thank you 4nn1l2 (talk) 15:16, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

File:Newdigate House, Castle Gate, plaque.png[edit]

This file was being used by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camille_d%27Hostun,_duc_de_Tallard, which you requested to be deleted. I can fix this for you on the English language wikipedia, but i cannot determine is there are any other articles on other wikipedias which also used this file. Can I ask you please not to delete images that are currently in use? thanks 86.151.120.146 17:28, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I expected that the admin who closed the deletion request would arrange for the new image to be properly substituted. I'll fix it up. --bjh21 (talk) 17:31, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
That was quick! thank you. 86.151.120.146 17:40, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
Right. I've undone CommonsDelinker's edits on cs, da, en, es, and ro. I've also left a request for it to replace the references to the old PNG with references to the new JPEG. --bjh21 (talk) 18:01, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

File:Bond Street Northbound Jubilee.jpg[edit]

Hi Bjh21! What do you think of this renaming:? Better? --Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 04:38, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

@Hedwig in Washington: Much better, yes. --bjh21 (talk) 09:04, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
@Hedwig in Washington: PS: thanks for taking my rather intemperate rant so well. --bjh21 (talk) 09:20, 6 September 2017 (UTC)

Cat[edit]

the category for britian and ireland. Can I help move them? Artix Kreiger (talk) 19:01, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

this is an important book. with no reference in wikipedia. zero. so i took a photograph of my book, Capital in the Twenty-First Century Book by Thomas Piketty.[edit]

maybe the license can be changed. i agree. this is funny. the editors have too much free time

File:Capital in the Twenty-First Century Book by Thomas Piketty.jpg
Capital in the Twenty-First Century Book by Thomas Piketty
— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Adam Kess (talk • contribs) 15:37, 4 November 2017‎ (UTC)

not to mention the file usage̟ - Capital in the Twenty-First Century Book by Thomas Piketty - editors with too much free time and no positive usage[edit]

File usage on other wikis The following other wikis use this file:
Usage on de.wikipedia.org
Thomas Piketty Das Kapital im 21. Jahrhundert


Usage on es.wikipedia.org El capital en el siglo XXI
Usage on fr.wikipedia.org
Le Capital au XXIe siècle
Discussion utilisateur:NaggoBot/CommonsDR
Usage on pt.wikipedia.org
O Capital no século XXI
Usage on ru.wikipedia.org
Капитал в XXI веке
Usage on zh.wikipedia.org 二十一世紀資本論

— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Adam Kess (talk • contribs) 15:38, 4 November 2017‎ (UTC)

A barnstar for you - Capital in the Twenty-First Century Book by Thomas Piketty[edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your tireless contributions of images - Capital in the Twenty-First Century Book by Thomas Piketty !!
— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Adam Kess (talk • contribs) 15:51, 4 November 2017‎ (UTC)

thanks for your postiive comment....i think when they delete the photo... i will take one more and then make edits to the user file like this[edit]

Template:Non-free use rationale album cover

have a great dayǃ

— Preceding unsigned comment added by David Adam Kess (talk • contribs) 00:43, 6 November 2017‎ (UTC)

Geograph Update Bot[edit]

Hello there, I noticed this diff where Geograph Update Bot removed the HTTPS from the links. Would it be possible to fix that to prevent bot edit warring? Thank you. Jon Kolbert (talk) 20:38, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

@Jon Kolbert: That's not meant to happen. It looks like Geograph Update Bot loaded that page as part of a batch of 50 at 04:38:22, KolbertBot then edited the page at 04:40:47, and Geograph Update Bot finally saved its version of the page at 04:41:13. I had expected that in this circumstance, pywikibot would detect the edit conflict and raise an exception, but apparently that was too optimistic. I'll see if I can find a way to make pywikibot do what I want. Thanks for letting me know about the problem. --bjh21 (talk) 20:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Seems like there'll only a few isolated cases, not much of an issue then. Thanks for the quick response :) Jon Kolbert (talk) 21:03, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
@Jon Kolbert: I think I've fixed the problem. --bjh21 (talk) 16:33, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

The Tireless Contributor[edit]

Salep, typical winter drink of Turkey

Hi there. I saw the words at the title on your talk page. Why don't we altogether DR the most notorious UPFs and make a good clean up? It's not playing anybody's game, believe me. Let's just go into the new year with less spam in Commons. Give a helping hand. Thanks in advance. --E4024 (talk) 15:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

@E4024: I'm happy for someone else to do it, but I'm afraid dealing with useless pictures is really not what I want to be doing on Commons. There are far too many useful pictures that need my attention. Sorry. --bjh21 (talk) 16:04, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the open-hearted answer. Have some salep, it warms. --E4024 (talk) 16:09, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Commons:Deletion requests/File:Firefox 17.0 Page Inspector - Selected element.png[edit]

Hi. I've replaced the Mohamed Morsi image, so I think the screenshot should now be fine. -Mardus /talk 12:36, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

If a nomination for deletion is withdrawn, then I assume, that it would still be an administrator, who must close the discussion and remove the deletion tag from the file it was attached to? -Mardus /talk 13:18, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
@Mardus: Yes. Also they might want to delete the old version of the file. --bjh21 (talk) 13:42, 11 January 2018 (UTC)
Mhm. Deletion of the old version is very likely to happen. -Mardus /talk 13:45, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

Geograph manual uploads[edit]

Hi. Thanks for the manual upload of this image. You said at the Village Pump thread that manual uploads are relatively easy. I ran into the same problem with this image. Could you describe the steps I need to take (and where to obtain the information from) and I'll try and do this one myself. Carcharoth (talk) 12:49, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: Here are the steps I'd follow (in perhaps too much detail):
  1. On https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2168023, look at the copyright notice under the picture. The word "reuse" is a link to https://www.geograph.org.uk/reuse.php?id=2168023. Follow that link.
  2. On https://www.geograph.org.uk/reuse.php?id=2168023, scroll all the way to the bottom to the section headed "Wikipedia Template for image page".
  3. In that section, there's a link labelled "download the image". Right-click that, choose "Save link as..." and choose "Save" the the dialogue box.
  4. In the same section, right-click "upload to Wikimedia Commons" and choose "Open link in new tab" (it's just a link to Special:Upload).
  5. Click in the text box below containing wikitext, and press Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C (select all; copy to clipboard)
  6. Switch to the new tab.
  7. Click "Choose file" and navigate to the file I downloaded earlier.
  8. Edit the "Destination filename" to make it descriptive of the picture.
  9. Click in "Summary", and press Ctrl+A, Crtl+V (select all; paste from clipboard).
  10. Add categories using the "Categories" section (which works like HotCat).
  11. Click "Upload file".
I hope that helps. --bjh21 (talk) 13:40, 12 March 2018 (UTC)
Perfect, thanks! Carcharoth (talk) 13:44, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

File:2008 05 06, Date stone, Sandcliff Hotel, Cromer.jpg[edit]

Hello. I'm curious about the licence on this file. You've indicated that it's derived from File:The Sandcliff Hotel - west facade detail - geograph.org.uk - 791348.jpg (though you linked to the copy on Geograph), which is licensed under {{cc-by-sa-2.0}} with a required credit to Evelyn Simak. However, your picture is licensed under plain {{Attribution}} without any attribution to Evelyn Simak required. How so? --bjh21 (talk) 20:46, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

My mistake, now rectified, Thanks, Kolforn (talk) 07:12, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

About the question with use of "Category:Corner buildings"[edit]

I read your suggestion at COM:HD. About the question with use of "Category:Corner buildings", what do you think who should I ask for help? Because I've stopped creating "Corner shops in XXX" and "Corner buildings in XXX" two categories.--Kai3952 (talk) 04:24, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Did you mean to say "corner view"?--Kai3952 (talk) 06:51, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Attribution changes for Geograph sourced images?[edit]

Hi, I'm puzzled by changes like this.

It adds {{Credit line |Author = Chris Allen |Other = ''Waddle fan, National Garden Festival, Ebbw Vale'' |License = CC-BY-SA-2.0 }} to the infobox, thus changing the CC-by-sa attribution line to:

Attribution
(required by the license)		 Chris Allen / Waddle fan, National Garden Festival, Ebbw Vale / CC BY-SA 2.0
Chris Allen / Waddle fan, National Garden Festival, Ebbw Vale

This raises a couple of problems: Firstly there's no reason to do this. Chris Allen has requested (at Geograph) attribution of "Chris Allen". Not "Chris Allen and <image title>" for each image. It is not WP's role to mess with anyone's attribution, even in a good-faith change like this.

Secondly, it makes the attribution different for each image from that author. That sucks as a practical situation in managing such metadata, especially automatically. The attribution line is no longer usable as an identifier for authorship, especially when checking licences. (Now that's maybe not the best idea anyway, that's why we keep the Author slot, but this does go on). Mostly though, an image gallery with many images would previously be able to bundle attribution as a simple statement, "All images credited to Chris Allen" to either a separate credit for each one (no-one has required this) or else having to try and fix the attribution statement by parsing out the real part from the decoration.

Thirdly, imagine a bulk re-use of such images, via Wikipedia rather than direct from Geograph. Or maybe even a mix of sourcing. How does such a re-use then check its licencing and verify that the attributions are correct? If it uses the correct attribution text, that will be a mismatch when compared to that from Commons.

Was this discussed anywhere before it was done? It's a bad change and it needs to be reversed. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:10, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: I've stopped the bot. I'll reply in more detail later. --bjh21 (talk) 11:22, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
@Andy Dingley: The simple answer is that I disagree with you about whether including the title when redistributing images from Geograph is necessary. I think it is. Geograph images are all licensed under CC BY-SA 2.0. The attribution requirements for this licence are in clause 4.c of its legal code. There are lots of words there, but the critical part is the requirement to convey "the name (or pseudonym if applicable) of the Original Author if supplied" and "the title of the Work if supplied" when distributing the Work. Photographs on Geograph have titles associated with them, so prima facie it seems obvious to me that those titles must be conveyed when distributing the photos. Do you disagree with this analysis somewhere? If not then we can discuss whether {{Credit line}} is the right way to record a licence-mandated title.
As for discussion, I raised the matter in two places. First, in Template talk:Credit line to check that I was using the template correctly, and second in Commons:Bots/Requests/Geograph Update Bot (credit lines) to get permission for Geograph Update Bot to make the edits. --bjh21 (talk) 14:17, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
It is an old principle in metadata handling that you don't modify the metadata values: you store them, you pass them on, and you do this faithfully. Otherwise chaos ensues. In particular, it is very easy to concatenate two values (as happens here), impossible to reliably split them again. So don't concatenate them. If anyone is going to concatenate them, do that as the very last step (as it recognises that the metadata is made unprocessable afterwards). And if you do do this, and concatenate them, that new value has to be recognised as a new creation, not just a replacement value for an old property.
I have no problem with "credit line" as a piece of formatting. It would be useful on WP, or anywhere that represents the final use of content. But what's a problem is when this is done for the storage of those items (and Commons is primarily a repository, secondarily a gallery). Embedding the (per item) title into the attribution breaks many of the use cases for that attribution value. In particular, those based on recognising common authorship and accreditation for a range of items. CC themselves recognised this and expressly dropped the "requirement" (which was never even a requirement, it was an unintended consequence) to embed the title from 4.0 onwards.
I withdraw my main concern over {{credit line}} because I realise that the situation here isn't quite as bad as I thought it was - this new value is being treated as a new property on Commons, and its a downstream problem with the mirrors where they've now absorbed it under an old property (I have 20,000 broken image licences and two book publications held up on this). But Commons needs to be very careful that it stays as a distinct property (and should only be used in galleries, not repositories) - the creator here, for the purposes of accreditation and licence checking is still "Chris Allen", not "Chris Allen / Waddle fan". Part of the trouble is that it isn't even part of a robust data model for image metadata here - Commons still does nothing better than a HTML table and human-targeted "label and hope" within that. Where's Dublin Core, or something sensible and machine processable? The risk now (and what has just happened) is that the scrape-and-pray consumers are picking up this new Attribution property from the {{Information}} table and using that (wrongly) as a first-class value within the licence metadata.
There's also the error in {{credit line}} in that it concatenates the title for a CC-4.0 licence, which is still wrong.
Andy Dingley (talk) 16:17, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
@Andy Dingley: Fixing Commons' metadata model is something I'm very happily leaving to other people. Once a better structure than {{Credit line}} is available, I'll happily retrain Geograph Update Bot to use that. Meanwhile, may I set the bot going again? Rest assured that it only ever adds {{Credit line}}, and never modifies or removes that template.
Restart it then. I don't like this, but I know my voice counts for nothing here. Andy Dingley (talk) 17:28, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
@Andy Dingley: Of course your voice counts for something. In particular, if you think the Geograph Update Bot shouldn't add {{Credit line}}s containing titles then that's enough reason for me to stop it doing so. Bots should only do uncontentious tasks, and if you disagree with this task then that's enough to make it contentious. --bjh21 (talk) 17:38, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
No, I'm fine with it (although fixing CC-4.0 would be good). The real problem is either downstream of Commons, or Commons' lack of a public data model. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:16, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
@Andy Dingley: Thanks. The bot is now running again (after a brief break for a database update and some a quick run of resolution improvements). --bjh21 (talk) 00:20, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Licensing of File:St Andrew, East Runton, Norfolk - geograph.org.uk - 314752.jpg[edit]

Removed - My mistake it was added in error when I added the coords templates Kolforn (talk) 20:14, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

File:Avoncliff Station (geograph 1463645, high-res).jpg[edit]

As you correctly pointed out when reverting File:Avoncliff Station - geograph.org.uk - 1463645.jpg, these two images are not quite the same. However they have the same source, which only shows the edited version. So what's the correct source for the larger one? -mattbuck (Talk) 16:11, 10 July 2018 (UTC)

@Mattbuck: It's the higher-resolution version of the same picture. You can get it either from the "reuse" page or the "more sizes" page. Geograph allows contributors to upload high-resolution versions of existing pictures and stores them separately, so sometimes they differ from the low-resolution version. Obviously the documented source needs to be changed to make this more obvious. --bjh21 (talk) 18:28, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
Ah I see. I'd say delete the smaller one, but I'm not fussed. -mattbuck (Talk) 21:20, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
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