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Routy CNC Router (V-Slot Belt & Pinion)

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by kram242, Nov 11, 2013.

  1. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    @Ceiling Cat - from my experience I would suggest that the stepper motors current should be adjusted so that they run hot to the touch but not so hot that you cannot hold your hand on them (even after hour of use). Now not everybody will agree with me on this but as a principle it has served me well for many years now.

    Tweakie.
    kram242 likes this.
  2. kram242

    kram242 OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    I use the fan on the board for sure without it the chips would overheat and I would lose steps. I think this may be the issue you are having.
  3. Ceiling Cat

    Ceiling Cat Journeyman Builder

    Thank you guys, I will try again tonight sometime. I have a little fan here and I will run it directly over the boards to push the heat away. Hopefully that will take care of it and it starts cutting true again for long periods of time. I'll also tune the current and let ya know. I'll shoot for warm to the touch but nothing you can fry and egg on. Thanks again for the suggestions and help.
    kram242 likes this.
  4. kram242

    kram242 OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    Best of luck to you @Ceiling Cat I think this will make a world of difference.
    BTW I forgot to answer above about the heat sinks. No heat sinks just the 12v fan 40mm blowing on the board

    [​IMG]
  5. Ceiling Cat

    Ceiling Cat Journeyman Builder

    Thanks for all the help guys, I think I found the problem last night when I was going over the machine. I put a 12V fan on my 24V supply. You can run it at that voltage by the way... granted I don't know for how long but it will put out a lot of air, more than enough to keep the board cool. I actually don't think over heating was the problem anymore. Last night I found that one of the set screws on my Y axis motors was completely gone. After closer inspection I found that the last set screw had almost worked its way completely out and was off the flat part of the motor shaft. Once corrected the machine is a lot more stable.
  6. kram242

    kram242 OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    Good find! Glad to hear your back up and running!:thumbsup:
  7. Ceiling Cat

    Ceiling Cat Journeyman Builder

    Another question on a different topic for anyone using LinuxCNC. I'm starting to realize the limitations of grbl controller software. I also don't like the fact that if I tell it to stop it just keeps on going its marry way until it empties out a buffer (bad design imo). I'm looking into LinuxCNC but it seems to go that route I would need a parallel port which I do not have on my host computer. I see they sell these USB to parallel port adapters:
    has anyone used one of these successfully with LinuxCNC or Mach3? I was thinking of purchasing one to play around with LinuxCNC. It seems like a more feature complete CNC software than grbl controller.
  8. JustinTime

    JustinTime Veteran Builder

    @Ceiling Cat, I don't know what you mean with 'host computer'. Is it a dedicated computer for the machine? That's what I did. I bought on Ebay an old Dell computer for about $60. It has a parallel port. Problem solve for me. I feed it with a USB Thumb Drive.

    Also, I've said it before, I change all my set screws to socket head screws. They are much easier to tighten since they use a bigger Allen Key.
  9. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    Those adapters are only intended for use with printers and do not work with Mach3 (not tried it but I assume they will not work with LinuxCNC either).

    Tweakie.
  10. Ceiling Cat

    Ceiling Cat Journeyman Builder

    By host computer, I have a mini http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173029 driving my machine currently. I like it because it fits in the palm of my hand and can mount directly to the machine in a little tiny control box I'm building to contain all electronics + power supply. I just remote into it from wireless network and do whatever I want. I can use my phone as a control interface with RDP, but this box does not have a parallel port or serial port, nor does it have room for an expansion card. USB is my only option so it looks like I could be stuck here unless I create a driver for LinuxCNC using HAL and a new controller board to match it. Mach4 looks to be supporting some sort of Motion Device Driver model so looks like we could possibly get a plugin for grbl shield + Mach4 with a little work.

    My other option would be to take out my mini and put it on the back of a TV for xbmc somewhere and use either my RaspberryPI or BeagleBone Black for the brains of my Routy machine. Anyone done anything with the PI or BeagleBone married to either LinuxCNC or Mach3?
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2014
  11. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    If you wish to use Mach3 with USB connection you could use an external motion controller such as the UC100 or Smooth Stepper etc.
    Mach4 still has some way to go before it will be ready for release so it could be a long wait.:(

    Tweakie.
  12. Ceiling Cat

    Ceiling Cat Journeyman Builder

    :(
    That's too bad about mach4. Which is better smooth stepper or UC100? I didn't think it was possible to use USB connection with Mach3. How do you set that up?
  13. Tweakie

    Tweakie OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    The UC100 and USS are just different approaches towards the same end but I could not say which one is better.
    I use the USS with one of my machines and have no complaints.
    Setting up data etc. for the USS is here http://warp9td.com/index.php/documentation

    Tweakie.
  14. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    usb to parallel converter WILL NOT WORK
    what you can use is a PCIe parallel port card that plugs inside the computer
    like this http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapt...ile-Parallel-Adapter-Card-SPP-EPP-ECP~PEX1PLP
  15. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    another option is to move from GRBL to a better USB based board like Planet-CNC or TinyG.

    also note that when wiring emergency stop buttons, they must always have 2 switches that operate together.
    1 switch tells the computer/grbl/whatever to stop/not start
    but you cannot wait for the software, so
    1 switch switches off the enable lines, or power, to the stepper drivers. it could also be wired into one of the limit switch circuits. however it does it, it must be an absolutely ensured 'stop now', and as such, must bypass all software and operate at the hardware level.
  16. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Builder

    First of all thanks for developing a great DIY system and providing some great designs to start with.
    I am a complete newbie to CNC but I have allot of experience making stuff and can use all types of metalworking machines, hand tools etc. I have extensive electronics skills and 35 years experience with computers.
    Right I have a few questions! I want a machine to drill in thin 1.5mm aluminum extrusions and 4mm aluminum rectangular stock. drill sizes are 3.25mm, 4mm and 5 mm. Also 5mm holes in 3mm plexiglass. It would be nice to be able to mill alu as well.
    1) Will this machine do this - I am planning on using the Kress 850 or 1050 spindles.
    2) What accuracy can I get from this machine - I need 0.1mm or better
    3) Is it worthwhile (or will it cause problems) to upgrade all the motors to Nema 32? Budget isnt really a problem.
    4) Where can I get a mounting kit for the Kress spindles?

    I am sorry for all the questions but I work 80+ hours a week and dont have much time to try and work this out, I need to find the answers from people who know what they are talking about and dont want to make any expensive mistakes, like building this and finding out it wont do what I need! Thanks allot!

    richard
  17. Richard

    Richard Well-Known Builder

    Sorry, point 3) should be "upgrade all the motors to Nema 23"!
  18. JustinTime

    JustinTime Veteran Builder

    1) Yes it can do it!
    2) The accuracy depends on how well, or not well, you are calibrating the machine. So it's totally up to you.
    3) Definitely worth it. Also, if you ever want to upgrade your machine to a bigger one you will not have to buy new steppers.
  19. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team Staff Member Builder

    accuracy,resolution,repeatability
    similar words that mean different things, particularly for CNC machines.
    so....
    accuracy DEPENDS on resolution and repeatability, and ultimately results from the accuracy of the leadscrew, roundness of pulleys for belts, etc
    resolution is a measurement of the size of a step
    repeatability is a measurement of how close it gets to the position you desired.

    At home I have a bunch of M14 allthread, which has 2mm pitch. If I attach a 200step per rev motor I get a resolution of 0.01mm per step (without any microstepping).
    If I use some sort of nice preloaded anti backlash nut I will get near 0.01mm repeatability.
    If I am seriously lucky to get an accurately rolled thread, I might get 0.05mm accuracy, but any wobble in the thread will mean that sometimes 100 steps moves 0.9mm and sometimes it moves 1.02 and sometimes it actually moves the desired 1mm. To get accuracy I'd need a precision ground ballscrew or similar high dollar hardware. To get repeatability I'll need a good antibacklash nut on that ballscrew.

    You may have a high resolution but low repeatability because something is loose or can bend/stretch, has backlash etc.
    you may have LOW resolution and high repeatability because everything is stiff, the leadscrew is precise, the bearing are preloaded, etc etc.

    There are the inevitable tradeoffs too, 'high' anything costs more money, but high resolution will come at the cost of speed and we must ask if we really need high resolution or is it high accuracy and repeatability that we need?

    How high a resolution do we need? I figure something to cut foam and balsa for model airplanes doesn't really need more than 0.1mm resolution (0.0039"). A machine for doing small 3D carvings may be much better with 0.01mm resolution, for big carvings working to 0.01mm may take a long time.

    How much repeatability do we need? as much as possible! (within budget of course).

    And then there is a question of how many decimal digits to output for Gcode.
    If the machine cannot do a step less than 0.01mm, is there any usefulness in feeding it Gcode to 4 decimal places? Intuitively I think it is a waste of time, but as a programmer I say it will depend on which processor is better at rounding while keeping track of real position, the Gcode creator or the machine controller?
    If the controller is LinuxCNC I say let it do the rounding as internal values are 8 byte floating point
    If the controller is GRBL, let the Gcode generator do the rounding since GRBL runs on an 8bit processor with no native floating point support, so any extra resolution will cost processor time, and then be lost anyway.

    this CNC thing is a bit of minefield eh?
    Robert Hummel likes this.
  20. mightyevo

    mightyevo New Builder

    How did you guys go about securing the spoil board?
    finishing up the build, seems a bit loose?
    cheers
    mevo
  21. JustinTime

    JustinTime Veteran Builder

    Just screw it down with a few screws. :D
  22. mightyevo

    mightyevo New Builder

    this is gonna sound like im being difficult here, maybe im just dumb..
    no laughing :p
    here goes..
    screw it to what? im outta tnuts an dont know how else id get screws into the extrusion.
    if this is just me being stupid feel free to point it out.
    always wanted people to think i was special....
  23. Robert Hummel

    Robert Hummel Custom Builder Staff Member Builder

    If your in a bind maybe measuring, then drill and tap the extrusion with an M5 tap and put your holes in the same places on the spoil board then sucure :)
  24. Ceiling Cat

    Ceiling Cat Journeyman Builder

    Just curious but has anyone tried cutting thin gauge sheet metal with routy? (sheet metal made from steel).
  25. mightyevo

    mightyevo New Builder

    hey, all
    having a lil problem, wondering if anyone can help.
    my x axis has horizontal play in the y direction, it wiggles, even with both eccentric's tightened all the way(the eccentric's for this axis are one each side on the bottom with one normal and 2 normals each side on top right?
    how solid should i expect to get it?
    just now negative Y cuts are great, but positive seems to just skip around on top
    any help would be much appreciated
    mevo
  26. JustinTime

    JustinTime Veteran Builder

    evo, is the play in the gantry or is it in the outside plates?
    mightyevo likes this.
  27. mightyevo

    mightyevo New Builder

    it appears to be the 2 plates connecting the wheels to the gantry, id suspect bad eccentrics but there is 100% no up down movment and eccentrics are fully tightened
    thank you for getting bk to me so quickly
  28. Robert Hummel

    Robert Hummel Custom Builder Staff Member Builder

    Can you post a picture so I may see what it looks like
    I may be able to help in some way
  29. Brian Slee

    Brian Slee Journeyman Builder

    Mightyevo...I am new here and definitely no expert, but I believe all of your eccentrics should be on the same side and all wheels on the side with the eccentrics should have one. So you should have 3 on one side with eccentrics and 3 on the other without. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.
  30. mightyevo

    mightyevo New Builder

    no problem, here a few from different angles and how its effecting flattening the bed... snot pretty
    let me know if any more angles would be better
    thanks for the help
    mevo

    Attached Files:

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